3 years of lies only to be undone by their own hands with the patent US 8425330 B1 filled by WarGaming in 2012 and published April 23, 2013 - Dynamic battle session matchmaking in a multiplayer game
There you have it folks, in WarGaming's own words:
As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range. Thus, when a player has been repeatedly put into too many difficult battles, the balancing is done in favor of easier battle sessions, thereby encouraging the player by providing an easier game environment. Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games. A first possible algorithm is to divide the permissible battle levels evenly across a range from zero (0) to two (2), and place the vehicle into the battle level corresponding to the win/loss ratio, where any ratio greater than two (2) automatically results in the vehicle being placed in the highest possible battle level. Another possible algorithm is to increase the battle level by one (within the permissible range) for a vehicle each time a player wins a battle with that vehicle, and decrease the battle level by one (within the permissible range) each time a player loses a battle with that vehicle. If the battle level is already at the upper end of the range and the player wins the battle, the battle level may remain constant. Similarly, if the battle level is already at the lower end of the range and the player loses the battle, the battle level may remain constant.
The MM is rigged to force players in the 50% win ratio.
[Edit 16.05.2013]
I read a lot of feedback on this from various sources, many still believe that this is not proof, that WG included this into the patent just because they could and not because it was (or still is) used.
Let me ask you this: why would WG include this into their patent if it isn't or wasn't used in WoT?
Problem no.2 is that info regarding rigging, or "loaded dice", surfaced ever since the game was in Closed BETA, that was in 2010! How come something believed to be true (even fantasy by WG's claims) gets described in detail in a patent filed two years later?
The rigging is quite real, only people chose not to believe it because otherwise they wouldn't be in control of their own "fate" (gameplay), and people don't like thinking they're not in control.
Some insist that since this would be true, why they have above 55-60% + win ratio. For the same reason I do, good players understand the game and how to work it in their favor, also this system can be subverted by platooning, by playing in tiered companies, by playing in CW with other good players. Teamplay trumps randomness every time.
But! a single good player pitted with morons against a good team cannot win the battle for them.
Keep in mind that the average W/L for the entire EU server is well below 50% :
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| http://eumireo.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/unofficial-eu-server-stastics-0-8-3-game-version/ |
WG also said in numerous Q&A's that the radio does not have an influence in detecting enemy ... ok, then why this:
An increased Signal Range value, in turn, may allow the vehicle to detect enemies at greater distances during game play, making the player more competitive against opponents and resulting in an enhanced gameplay experience for that player.found in patent US 20130090161 A1 - Using and Exporting Experience Gained in a Video Game published April 11, 2013.
Another lie by WarGaming? bet your ass it is!
Funny how various aspects of the game get clearly described in patents rather than various Q&A sessions ..
[Edit 2 - 16.05.2013]
Someone asked what's my W/L ratio since I "dared" to write this article and accuse WarGaming of lying.
Here:
Funny how various aspects of the game get clearly described in patents rather than various Q&A sessions ..
[Edit 2 - 16.05.2013]
Someone asked what's my W/L ratio since I "dared" to write this article and accuse WarGaming of lying.
Here:
- my WoT official profile: http://worldoftanks.eu/community/accounts/500013338-zmeul/
- and my efficiency ratings: http://www.noobmeter.com/player/eu/zmeul
I think that's obvious to everyone who play this game. No surprise.
ReplyDeleteAnd I strongly believe that they do even more: if you win a lot, you will be put into teams with really really low efficiency players.
the true extent of how the system works might remain unknown for many years to come
Deleteif it wasn't for this patent filing, we wouldn't knew even this
Very true. It is also possible that they mess with accuracy and penetration values.
DeleteWell, if they mess around with the RNG to nerf your Performance - then it's time to quit this Game for all times! I can live with beeing putted into Games that are more challenging, but if you get just bad dice rolls so you play less good.. that would be utterly sneaky and mean!
Delete2 small points then:
Delete1. That part you quote would mean only that with winning a lot, you will be often placed in a battles that you are on the bottom. While it moves your win ratio towards 50% it cannot move you below, because being good player you will influence a team even then.
2. Whole patent has many different tools that may be used in matchmaking, what does not mean that all of them are in use now.
For example there is a patent described a mechanism to put freshly acquirted vehicles to battles where you are top tank but it's not actually used at the moment.
So while it is interesting wagrgaming considers such option, this patent is not proof of anything. It's only circumstantial evidence.
@gorzki
Deletequote: "For example there is a patent described a mechanism to put freshly acquirted vehicles to battles where you are top tank but it's not actually used at the moment."
this "tool" was used sometime in older versions of the game, if I recall, the newly acquired tank did nod had it's full battle tier for the 1st 10 battles
this was dropped when the tier MM spread was reduced to 2
the rigging of the MM was discussed even when the game was in CBT by people close to the dev team
as for it being used at this very moment, it's beyond the point
WG claimed numerous times that the MM is not rigged - they lied every time
they also give false info or incomplete on other aspects of the game
the only tool we have at our disposal is observation and deduction to sort the real truth and game mechanics
@Trebron ZnieH
DeleteYeah, sometimes you've noticed that you ding on a tank that you should be able to pen everywhere. And it just keeps on dinging time and time again. Sometimes bouncing on a flat surface even.
I do not think they would fill a patent for manipulating damage/penetration rolls. Why would they try to protect such ideas, no other sane company would do such things, so there is nothing to protect lol
ReplyDeleteBut yeah,Im trying not to be a conspirationist, I suspect this for a long time now. When the enemy armor is lets say 100 mm and you have a pen of 90mm to - 160 mm and you bounce you start to wonder how the fuc I rolled bellow 100 when I have way more chances to roll above 100. And this happens many times in a row.
On a side note the penetration random distribution is not linear. For a 198 pen of T32 you have between 149 and 248. You expect to have the same chance to roll the lower end and upper end but in fact for the T32 you have more chances to roll the high end.
And there is always a Way to overcome the RNG.. well partially.. shoot Gold ^^
ReplyDeleteBounces will become 0 dmg hits then.
DeleteI wonder why no one started the shitstorm on the offical forums yet.
ReplyDeleteprobably because most of "old timers", like me, are sick with WG's lies
DeleteThey have consistently lied about every aspect of the game since ALPHA... most of us are just burnt out and besides, all the newby fanboys will of course never believe it.
DeleteAll I know was I posted a thread on the NA forums, it's still there. then somebody posted a link to it on the EU forums, SS posted about it, now it's here. There has definitely been some ruckus on the forums about this.
DeleteI posted this on the EU Forum, bc as i also belive in: Why patent it and NOT use it ? I think they have a lott of described ways to rig the game and keep a steady income. If i was WG i would have done the same, all they want is profit and whats better then to give the illusion that you can actually win and get better and spend more cash. It is brilliant....
DeleteTech companies patent anything and everything today. Literally anything they can get away with patenting. Its standard practice - just look at Google, Samsung and Apple fighting over them in court. Having a patent absolutely does not mean using it. But that also doesnt mean they aren't using it. Just isnt proof.
Deletethe suspicion WoT's MM used a rigged system dates to late 2010-early 2011 with hints from people very close to the developer team
Deletenow, 2-3 years later a patent just happens to surface describing the exact same thing people in Closed BETA suspected?! this is way to much to call it coincidence and tell it's not proof
it's a closest proof anyone outside WG can get, aside empirical analysis of the MM and the gameplay
this has been suspected and now there is a patent to prove that the suspicions were absolutely and undeniably correct
you don't want to see it as proof, no one is forcing you; but please, don't tell us (me) we're imagining things
because the Mod deleted my/our threads and band us from the forums.... Censorship at it's finest
DeleteLOL i was sure about this. WG fools its playerbase, all the theories about keeping a player around 50% WR were true. And this now is a damn fact...
ReplyDeleteI experienced the following:
I was doing around 5-6k damage per battle for some time regularly. Then, i wasn't able anymore --> my gun dispersion increased alot, shells disappered / missed more, shell penetration was lowered (ridicolous bounces) even with gold.
I played Hummel in the early beginning of my WoR carrier. I was doing extreme good in it, making tons of damage until 1 day: Shells missed, missed, missed. No way to play that anymore.
Lorraine: As it was introduced, i got it. Made 1,6k battles, 2.5k damage per battle, 2.5 kills per battle. Until 1 day: Only 3-4 of 6 shells actually hit, not all of them penetrated, gun dispersion went crazy, etc.
I have a lot of examples how WG keeps good players down. You can fight with a Noob, he will win because his shots hit, yours not.
That's why you read on the forums: WTF happened, silent nerfs, ninja nerfs... all this players were called idiots, noobs, etc because the real noobs don't experience such things as the RNG of WG tries to keep them over their poor 40% WR allowing them to pen and hit everything.
ReplyDeleteI hope WG will fix player sense of entitlement. So many people, upon playing more, feel like they deserve to win just because they have won before. WG needs to add a reminder to players that they need to focus more on game and less on making up reasons why external factors are the problem, not themselves.
ReplyDeleteThen how do I have a 62% win ratio?
ReplyDeletefor the exact same reason I have 55.5% win rate
DeleteDamn I only have 54.5% :)
Delete54.4%
DeleteI feel so inadequate now.
same as my clan member .. we play platoons we have 8 kills almost every battle..
Deletewhile we play tier8 companies we have 80% wins ..
while we play tier6 companies we have 95% wins .. thats why
'm curious to know wich is the WR of the author of this article. :)
ReplyDeleteOnly noobs, but worse looser players, thinks so. Sorry, but i think so.
In base your reasoning, in the game should not exist players with 75% of win, as player with 65%, 60% but overall players with 50% to 59% of wr, the biggest players range over 50% of WR, but players with these WR exist.
Reading what you wrote, i can't have a WR that i have: sorry if i don't tell you, but i don't want to brag, also because my WR for me isn't so important: at difference of many others players, i haven't none firm published on wot forums, also because I don't write on any wot forum: only read them and often i'm laughing to read post of players give fault to MM, noobs team, red, oranges, at the fate, astral conjunctions, OP tanks and much more :)
It's a pitty u don't understand some important things:
true: if u lose one battle, u must win two battles to go in positive,
but it's true too, and is the most important thing: more increase the number of battles, to recover your win ratio lost, u need win more battles. On one battle lost u need win 3,4,5 battles and so on. This means on the big numbers, the w/r will tend to stabilize on you effective w/r.
If a player run because want arrive to TX in less time, very easy in a future will pay the conseguence to have a bad WR. If the player don't run, all becomes at his advantage: many experience convereted for free to buy important modules for tank of the next level. In this way is possible enter in battle from start with new tank with a good configuration, and also this is very important to win from first battle and to have a good WR.
About MM
True, In some battles the MM put the player to the end of the list, but at the same time the MM put the same player in battles where is in the middle list and in top list. If the player don't win battles favorable to him, the fault is of the MM? I think the fault is only of the player.
The better thing is the statistics should be based on X last number of battles, and not based on a general number, because can be the best thing to know the real value of player. Reason? There are good players from start of the game, but many become good players with the time, and in this last case the general stats can be false. This is the right thing the WG must to do.
Another important thing is, maube you forgptten, in these last months in wot there are many new gamers and is normal that general WR of the server tends to go down. Many of them are not good players!
Have a good games.
You sound like one of those Russian Mods on WOT and need to just go back to speaking your native language because your not and American or an Italian.
Deleteahahaha i m italian and Mario Rossi= false name.patetic wg
Deletenot gonna happen anytime soon
ReplyDeletepeople with 1/2 of brain left WoT by now
Why should one leave because of this? WoT is till fun. And it only applies to random matches anyway.
ReplyDeleteActually I think it is very clever by wargaming. To narrow the Gaussian curve by this algorithm. So everyone can play, have fun and even win almost half the time.
All other "pvp" games suffer from the fact that the average player is by defintion mediocre. And lose interest when they continually lose, so only hardcore players stay in the game.
Wargaming learned from that. Very clever if you ask me.
ITT: I don't know how statistics work and blame it on WG
ReplyDeleteI give a flying fuck about what you think (I / you) (don't) know
Deleteget back to trolling the forums
people that left didn't do it because of the rigged MM
ReplyDeletethey did it for a sum of reasons
my main reason for leaving WoT back in nov last year was gold ammo, closely followed by the lack of quality players
I got fed up with losing matched under 5 minutes with scores like 0-15 or 3-15
love all this rage that started from my post on the US forums.
ReplyDelete-Tedster59
hahah good stuff Tedster
DeleteI just wanted to know if that was your cat on your WoT avatar - I had one very similar that was like a small panther
Yes the shitstorm is still raging, with the latest being that the patent describes three methods of MM, but doesn't say which one they use. The WG Defence League say that therefore this proves that MM is random. Well it's not skill based I think we all know that for sure, so it's a choice between random and adjusted.
Another poster on this blog has asked why so many games turn into massacres nowadays... surely this is a big clue. There was a really good post last year (which I can't find) where someone used gambling analysis tools to establish where the 'steps' were in the flip/flop process of MM.
So if it's a 50/50 between random and adjusted, then all I can say is don't trust WG to roll your dice for you.
There is more hidden shit to WoT mm than this. I get 1/3 games with balanced or better teams, and 2/3 I'm in teams with 2-3 good players the rest are retarded monkeyz, while the enemy team has less than half bad players. Also dmg and pen RNG is weird, too many low dmg and low pen in a row sometimes. Also I found that platooning with some ppl i get worst mm ever and with other ppl I get better mm.
ReplyDeleteTrebron
ReplyDeleteyes it is clever... if you believe that MM is adjusted by your win rate, which I guess you do. The problem for me is that why should I bother to get better if MM will then cast me down with the Sodomites.
Question: if MM is rigged/adjusted, then if I go out and do my best to lose for twenty games in a Tier 1 craptank, does anyone think I'll then do better when I roll my T62A out?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMy comment was removed as it proved this Blogger and blog to be false. True fact . It's on ze internetz
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIf this is true its fraud and deception has I would never of spent any money on WOT.
ReplyDeleteThey have obtained money by deceiving me which is fraud.
They are not above the law no matter what there EULA states.
WG needs to make a new statement to clear this up?
Saying nothing means one thing.
very unhappy tanker(if it turns out to be true)
I have nearly 10000 battles and I have to say it feels like it is rigged.
Time to fing a new game I thinks.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAlready discussed this with few who claimed MM is rigged.
ReplyDeleteNow he is angry at me, so he ptut -5 to my rep everyday :D
You have nothing.
And why majority of bad players only agree with you?
Well I have a 56% win rate and I agree the MM is messed with.
DeleteI play war thunder more now because of it.
@gudzhis
Deletewho are you speaking to?!!?
http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/253144-dirty-secrets-of-wg-or-lies/page__p__4920091#entry4920091
ReplyDeletehttp://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/250261-a-video-for-newcomers-and-newbies/#top
Just read these two forum, and you would know that op arguments arent worth any byte it consumes.
Try it, the game'll give you insane accu/pen/dmg rolls for a while on THAT tank (have to make sure the match turns in a loss though, as in, force enemies to find your buddies and such, basically you have to help the enemy win every match for a while to get a visible effect on your tank's rolls), your T62A won't be affected by this.
ReplyDeleteI have read your topic with great interest.
ReplyDeleteAnd i find your arguments very strong. I have made this clear several times on the forum.
I can not give you the exact topic because there were several. Now i am banned within a month for weak reasons.
I guess they have handeld my criticism the Russian way. Banned for ever! (officially for 3 days but it is never restored)
https://fotoonlineplaatsen.googlegroups.com/attach/7e4dc5f27fd0f94c/picture%201.jpg?view=1&part=5
https://fotoonlineplaatsen.googlegroups.com/attach/7e4dc5f27fd0f94c/picture%202.jpg?view=1&part=4
My great frend the Bigbadvuk..
Edit 2 is purely BS. By the word "detecting", it meant the range of mini map only. It has nothing to do with spot range.
ReplyDelete?!?!!?!!
DeleteI have always been indifferent about the MM until today. Though this is still not proof that it is rigged, the evidence is compelling!
ReplyDeleteI'm still kind of short-sighted on the whole subject, but, zMe ul, what do you think the average w/r would be if the matchmaking were not "rigged"? Would the game be more enjoyable for you? And what do you think about gold ammo (one of the main reasons you left the game)?
what average W/L I would think it be .. that's a hard question to answer since WoT is played over a +/-2 tier spread
Deletewould the game be more enjoyable? yes, perhaps
what do I think of gold ammo? gold ammo should not be allowed in random battles; gold ammo should only be available to training rooms, tank companies and clan wars
One of the forumites linked me to some other "Greedy goblin's" blogpost with some lenghty and good experimental data. I'm more conviced that the MM is rigged. I'm still a bit skeptic sbout things like "more frequent 0 damage shots" etc. But I kind of understand now why I never cared about the MM, even though I noticed myself from the start some strange "interventions" with everyone's average w/l ratio.
DeleteAnyway. I still have some questions though. Assuming the MM is rigged, how do you think the WoT's community should battle it? And what would the ideal MM would look like? Would it be skill-based?
how should the community battle it? handle it? - well the best way to counteract the rigging is to play in platoons
Deletethe ideal MM - definitely skill based and based on individual tanks and/or class/tiers of tanks
by GAYMING the GAYM of course! low lifes doing "count ins" all day and all night using multiple accounts. Feeling insecure of their "pro elite" status. "Community"? Just suck up to WG employees, family, or these asshole ponycums etc... and you will have a great win rate even if you camped half your games. Its all political and social skills. You can even say their e-sports are rigged, how much more those daily randoms. Complain and you will see your win rates fall even further. That's how pathetically power hungry these assholes are even to the point of manipulating an internet tank game. If any of you read this just post your name and address here so I can just get back at you and break your neck for your deception and bullshit. Lets see just how brave you are at backing up your trolling.
DeleteMy current win/loss ratio is 58%, I have played 5k matches so far. And the MM IS FCKNG GETTING WORSE AND WORSE! In 4 of 5 matches, I play against +2 tier enemies. And while my win/loss ratio is still getting higher (meaning my skills are improving), I really hate when I play with tanks that can be killed with 1 shot by any of my enemies, while I only can damage them for ~10% of their max health.
ReplyDeleteJust an example, with my Tier IV T-28 medium, it happens quite often that I am the ONLY TIER IV tank in the whole battle, and most enemies are Tier VI (even worse: several times there are no Tier V tanks at all, only Tier VI and me). Before 8.6, btw., it couldn't happen, there was always the same tanks on both sides (plattons and scouts do not count here). So 8.6 made it even worse.
I'm really frustrated with WoT nowadays, and are considering quitting it.
Shame.
No such thing as rigged MM, and even if there was it would even out for everybody. So I guess you are just one of those "privileged" players trying to divert attention from the "real" rigging thats going on. What goes on actually is real time rigging by people "in the know" and even some people who are under WG payroll. They call it "gayming the gayme".
ReplyDeleteYou notice when you are in losing team your team mates just even intentionally miss opponents or shoot anywhere but at the opponents, pretending to be noobs. All these randoms are staged and all it takes is a few "players" on one or both sides deciding who wins or loses. Sometimes "accidents" happen but rarely.
You also notice when your on the "winning" side your opponents seem to just stand still and let themselves be shot? This scenario though happens more often to "favored" players. Just be a complainer or maybe unknowingly offend by expressing your frustration (from being trolled) from being "given" losses and you will see your win rate plummet and be one of the "unfavored" players.
Just observe these hi win rate players in game and you will see they don't do anything special really and you wonder how did they get their hi win rate. Of course its all staged just like WWE only they try to make it look real(sometimes) but its those times that they make it too obvious that they are trolling you that gets me off. I'd like to puke in their
faces if I can.
You also notice random players chatting like they knew each other? Thats because they do! They use alt accounts and they have LOTS of alt accounts (and they said in the rules before you are allowed only one account per server).All this is not complete, for sure I missed something being not one of the "favored" players.
Its all a sham, I regret having started playing at all. I will play it for free forever from now on just because of having spent some money and time playing as well as downloading and patching (takes 6-12 hours for me) the damn game. I would like a refund of all my money and everything else, but of course its not possible.
Also that "number of players online" - you can't trust that, they can do or show whatever they want in their game. The real players online could only be 1 and that damn number will show 10,000! So there could be 1,000 online actual "innocent" players, "favored" and "unfavored" (even balcklisted - those players who they will troll) their could be 500 "establishment" players (decides who wins or loses), and WG money? the owners of WG could be earning from other things they've invested in, not necessarily from their game.
DeleteThat patent was filled in together with introduction of team battles. It was not never secret that 7on7 are balanced with their win ratios. It WG commented that they do not use this balancing for random battles.
ReplyDeletewhat the hell are you talking about!?!?
Deletethis patent was filled back in 2012
I'v been playing this game since it was released to the public fully. Im using the RHM, teir 8 german "hellcat" TD, fired and hit a T-29, the american teir 7 heavy's frontal armor, with the RHMs 150mm, and somehow bounced off. Flat armor back when I had the KV-4 months ago, T-34 teir 8 side armor "It bounced off!" and btw I had the upgraded good 107. Buddy of mine was fighting a hellcat with the T-150 with the 107 equipped, and he was bouncing off hellcat frontal hull armor. We're decent players, and at least 3/4ths of our battles are shit.
ReplyDeleteMy IGN is Crawr if anyone wanted to know. And just sitting here sharing my experiences. I know this game is rigged and i know RNG per player is rigged else this shit wouldnt happen.
If you buy premium you will go from a depressing grind, second-job-like game with too many bs battles and a 20% hit ratio - to a wonderful walk in the park easy game.
ReplyDeleteWith premium your tank will move faster and easier, aim faster, get more pen, get more damage, see further for longer and tanks will appear sooner. Wild shots will magically bend around corners, go through rocks, buldings, wooden objects and over hills to hit, pen and damage to your guns' full potential.
So for the payers wot is indeed a great fun game and these payers can say the idiotic phrase 'carry-harder' while looking at their rigged stats and call themselves unicorn and mega unicorn
I can confirm that this is also the experience of our group of player (5 people)
DeleteThat also explains why there are times that:
ReplyDeletea> my Panther's L100 shots GO WIDE
b> one out of ten shots from all my tanks DISAPPEAR [with no ground impact splashes behind and around the target] even when TRACERS show IT DID HIT the target
HMMMM.
Blatantly rigged game and World of Warships is even worse. The RNG + MM is laughable and removes any and all skill.
ReplyDeleteSorry to the higher win % players but then please understand that I am also one. Platooning and using OP tanks/boats does not = skill.